I think you hit the nail on the head. You aren't paying for any special knowledge, although you might get some training on legal matters that the average Joe wouldn't know about. What you *are* paying for is advertising, access to the Dave Ramsey "network," and Dave's good rep. If you look at this class as a networking and advertising tool, it might just make sense. People trust Dave and they trust the people he endorses. To illustrate, let me give you an example. I used to live in Dave's home town of Nashville, TN. He did local commercials for a pawn shop called Barry's Pawn, a store in Madison with a big blue awning. People flocked to that store. It was so popular that other pawn shops tried to cash in by changing their names to Berry's Pawn, or Barri's Pawn and putting up big blue awnings on their stores. Dave's name carries that kind of power in the markets where his show is broadcast. If you're outside one of those markets, you'll get less return on your investment.

I talked with a guy that went throug his (for profit) counseling course.

Paraphrased, he said it wasn't anything he couldn't have learned from books, but the consolidation of useful material was, well, useful.

The fact that you're listed on DR's site is, as he said, not very useful. He hasn't received on referral from the site -- and he's based in Texas, which is a pretty strong DR market as far as I know.

Thanks for the mention.

I have a love/hate relationship with Dave. On the one hand I love the fact that he is trying to talk some sense into people. On the other hand, he seems too "salesy" too me.

I realize he has to make money or he couldn't keep doing what he's doing. I just think there's less obtrusive ways to do it.

I wouldn't spend the $3,750 on the program. It seems like money that would be wasted. Is the $3,750 required in order to get listed on his site?

JLP

JLP,

Yes, the $3750 gets you the counselor training, which in turn gets you a link from his site and any "referrals" from folks in your area who might call Ramsey's company looking for assistance.

I have my doubts as to either of these methods actually generating much in the way of leads.

Michael,

You are not alone - I have contemplated signing up for the counselor training as well. I have also poured over the different training materials Dave offers because I think it would be really neat delivering financial eduation. But alas, I haven't gone through with it. The prices are pretty steep and if you listen to Dave's show enough, you likely already know what you need to know. I suppose that what folks like us may be looking for is a way to get into the business with a sense of "legitimacy" (either some letters after our names, or an affiliation with someone as popular as Dave Ramsey). Seems like gaining some formal credentials/education is the way to go.

That counselor training is pretty steep - not for me. I did buy his FPU facilitator kit for churches at about $290 and each family bought their own kits for $90. That was 5 months ago and since then I have paid off $11k in debt and stashed $8k in my emergency fund. I've got more "financial peace" than ever and I'm excited about facilitating another FPU course at our church starting in March. So the money was well spent to me and I have used the principles I learned to help others with their financial matters.

As for the merchandising he does and the money he makes from selling his "product" - I think it's all legit. Just my 2 cents...

You don't need to pay this guy to get that knowledge. Likely you can create something organically with other folks at your church. That's what I am doing with my church, and pulling from knowledge experts as needed on our team (I am a volunteer Financial Counselor at my church).

Dave Ramsey is a bit sketch IMO. He is great if you don't know anything, but he quickly tries to make a buck off of you with his "tools".

I tell people the best way to get fundamentals is to subscribe to the Wall Street Journal ($99 a year). You will learn more than you ever thought there was to learn about not just personal finance but also economics, which is fundamental to really "getting" money management.

talk about making a buck-- or several thousand?? I talked with someone who went through Dave's Entreleadership. Price tag?? $4,500. And again, nothing extremely special in the knowledge area.
Here a buck, there a buck, hand over your bucks!

Ramsey is great... for really dumb people. Listen to his show... 99% of the callers all sound the same. And the thing that bugs me is that he loves calling people "stupid". I guess that's his way of being a bit of a shock jock. I mean, my wife and I are in our early 30s, and will have our first house paid off in 2 years. No other debt. How did we do it? Well, we have common spending sense and we didn;t need a wealthy man to tell us we are stupid.

I haven't really looked closely at his web site, so forgive me here. But he rails against using a credit card (My wife and I have ALWAYS had one and ALWAYS paid it off each month... for 7 years... we aren't "stupid" but he may think we are) yet, I assume to buy his books, dvds and CDs on his site, you need a (GASP) CREDIT CARD??? Dave: "Wait, wait! BEFORE you cut up that "stupid" card, buy my book with it!"

I guess one main reason I don;t like him is that my cousin did some contract work with Ramsey's company in Nashville. He was shocked to learn how mean Dave Ramsey was to his own employees and to him... said he got the woerd feeling that his employees worked in fear of Ramsey... Hey, it's his compnay I guess, run it your own way.

Wanna save money? I'll tell you how my wife and I did what we did... my dad showed me a PAPER spreadsheet (Yes, they are huge) and my wife and I converted it to MS Excel. within 3 months of our marriage, we stopped argueing about money and our checking account seemed to double. There. What I just told you is what Dave Ramsey is making 6 figures on... he just makes it seem alot more confusing than that so you pay to learn it.

james- first, you're wrong about his website accepting credit cards. it only accepts debit cards. remember to put your teeth in the next time you try to make a biting remark.

ref:
http://www.daveramsey.com/etc/cms/debit_card_policy_32.htmlc

second, his entire get-out-of-debt plan is explained, daily, on his radio show and website for a grand total of $0.

not everyone in this country is as intelligent or financially responsible as you and your wife are. it might even be a majority of people out there who just don't "get it". he helps a lot of people understand why and how to get themselves onto better financial ground, and he actually makes it sound simple, not confusing.

my only real complaints are his cheesy catchphrases, horrible theme song, and constant references to the bible.

Dave Ramsay is a fraud. The debt snowball theory makes no sense at all. Common sense tells you to pay your highest interest debts first. The psychological factor means nothing to me. Also I manage my finances without the belief in a higher power. Too many times Mr. Ramsay has an evenagelical agenda and its very obvious. I pay 4.7 on mortgage and getting upwards of 5 percent on various accts in my name. There is no way I am paying off my mortgage early . Thats just stupid, not to mention the tax write off I get as well, bringing my interest even lower.

ldavid...First, you probably pay taxes on that 5% interest, right? If not, you've got other issues. That would probably bring your overall interest pocketed down below your 4.7%. Second, why would you like to pay, say, $5,000 in interest in order to save approximatly $1,500 in taxes. If it were up to me, I'd rather keep the $5,000 of interest in my pocket.

Seems like most of the people in the above comments who are railing against Dave are the very people who don't know what he teaches (by virtue of the content of their comment). Interesting.

Luke 10:7, ..."for the labourer is worthy of his hire..." Since when did making money become a sin? $3,750 is nothing in today's world when compared to all the "stuff" we 've accumulated in our basements and attics. I sense the real issue is not the $3,750 but the fact that he's making money off people who are usually suffering in financial difficulties; and so are insurance salesmen, credit counselors, banks, credit unions, credit card companies, etc. So, if people would follow the philosophy of Ron Blue or the late Larry Burkett (of which much of DR's empire is based on), then we could put the financial counselors and money changers out of business. But then again, we wouldn't need pastors if we would all stop sinning.

You people BASHING DAVE RAMSEY, don't have a clue! Dave is a very successful business man. And that's wrong??? His company is growing at an astounding rate. That's a bad thing??? He often says that if he sells one book and makes a dollar and helps somebody out of debt, people love him. (he often sells his hard cover books for $10.00 each--most likely a break even at that point). But if he does that a million times and helps a million people, somehow all of a sudden people think he's greedy. Yeah, I drank the coolaid. But guess what? I'm now 100% debt free!!! Don't even have an overdue library book! I guess I was stupid cause I was not doing this on my own--He made it seem so easy though. And he has vevy few of my dollars. Listen to the radio show--he gives away stuff all day long! I've spent more money in McDonald's on dinner than I've given Dave and am now Debt Free. The program works without spending any money with his company! I mean Really works. One other thing--I seriously doubt that he is as mean as one person stated, to his employees. Could have had a bad day or taken out of context. You don't win "Best place to work in Nashville" two years in a row if the boss is a jerk. The guy helps people on a daily basis and talks about all the Millionaires he's met. Very few if any are mean or jerks. Why do poor people think all rich people are mean jerks? Take some personal responsibility with or without Dave. Coolaid anyone? Drink up, America!!!

dionigi, you are right. Dave is perfect for Stupid People. People without common sense. Bless their hearts. Non, truly some people just don't get it. And I geuss it takes a guy to show them that 1 + 1 = 2 at the cost of seminars to knock them straight.

SO you are right, Dave makes a fortune off of stupid people. America is great. I'd do it too if I could.

James is right there several comments up. If he is just saying something out loud, James is allowed ro do that. Dave is mean to his own employees. When you can glossy coat things and have people "drink the Kool-Aid", why not? That is just Dave with his MY way or the highway approach!!!!! Man, be careful of who you trust!! Look up Dave Ramsey bad live events in Google. Get the post Dave Ramsey live event at money musings and see how he steam-rolled people at a Grand Rapids event...2007. Hey, it's OK!!!! Dollars in his pocket.

Like any other "guru", you have to take his program with a grain of salt. I also tire of his cheesy sayings. But there is a lot of good information in the Financial Peace University courses, even for people who know a lot about finances. The course cost $90 and the stuff I learned in the insurance lesson alone paid for that.

I'm an intelligent man (an engineer), but I was just ignorant on financial stuff. We have no consumer debt, just a mortgage, and have always been saving in our 401k's. So I'm probably not his typical audience. We never did a budget before FPU, but we also didn't spend more than we earned. We still have credit cards that we pay off each month. But my marriage has improved because we're having discussions about long term goals in more definite terms, not just "we'll retire together someday" or "we'll save for the kids college". I guess you could just say we're spending with purpose. We're happy with it and we haven't really changed our lifestyle. We're just conscious of our choices.

I think if they taught FPU in high school or college, a lot of people would get started out on the right financial foot when they get their first big job. But the principals are sort of against the mainstream pop culture right now, which is I want it now and I should buy it now. Now is Dave Ramsey's plan the be all end all? Absolutely not. But it's a great plan for people who feel hopelessly in debt and good personal finance intro for everyone else. As you gather wealth, you will need to learn more details about investing and tax sheltering and all of that. But I bought a kit for my brother and my sister-in-law and hopefully it'll help them start out good after college.

Looks like it's been a while since anyone has posted. However, let me take a shot. To my knowledge, I am the only poster here who is one of Dave's Certified Financial Counselors. I went through the course (>5 years ago when it was $3500). I get phone calls almost on a daily basis from people who have been referred to me by Dave's office. I don't advertise and I do this on the side and I am making some nice spending cash. I have made back the $3500 many, many times.

Now, the issue about him being a jerk. Here it is, folks...he is a jerk! He is a serial name dropper and his pride and ego are bloated out of reality. A good friend of mine is a department head with Dave's company and he gives me the scoop. If you work for Dave, he will make it clear that he is not your friend. He is your boss. So don't think he is this great warm and fuzzy kind of guy. He is not. But he is an excellent business man. He treats his employees ok. He starts them out extremely low and gives them a bonus structure based on monthly performance of the specific department you work in. My neighbor, who is in IT, interviewed with Dave's company earlier this year. He was offered the job but the starting salary was laughable...about $30,000 below the average in the IT field in Nashville (i.e. about $40,000). He was told that in about two years, with bonuses, he would be making what he makes now. Also, the health insurance plan he offers is horrible. He gives away good Christmas gifts, though, to his employees (i.e. flat screen tv's).

You should see his new $1.5 million home he is building now. It sits atop of a hill overlooking Brentwood, TN where he works. Dave is king of the hill and he knows it.

All that said, I guess he deserves it. He has literally helped millions of people. He also provides me with some nice spending money every month on the side. :)